Nepal-based responsible tourism expert, Raj Gyawali - Episode 2

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the kimkim podcast, where we share travel stories from all over the world. We learn from our local experts, travelers, and travel entrepreneurs. Travel is our way of life. We aspire to inspire more people to travel to interesting places and to have memorable experiences.

Alex Buri:

Hi everyone, welcome to the second episode of the kimkim podcast. My name is Alex and I'm the head of community here at kimkim. In case this is your first time listening, kimkim is a new travel company that connects travelers to local travel experts who can help plan the perfect trip. Today I'm excited to welcome another one of our experts onto the show, Raj Gyawali. Raj runs a company called socialtours and lives with his family in Kathmandu. Raj has been organizing customized trips to Nepal for almost 20 years. Raj, welcome to the show.

Raj Gyawali:

Thanks, Alex. It's a real pleasure.

Alex Buri:

Maybe we could start off by just sharing a bit of your background and how you got started in the travel industry.

Raj Gyawali:

Sure. Back in about 1998 I was working in manufacturing and selling sweaters to H&M actually, oddly enough. Around that time we managed to get a group of students from England to come in and do a trip on a cost-plus basis. They did the cost of the trip and we added $200 for charity and used that $200 to build a hostel for a school. That worked really well and people were really happy to actually participate in the process. There was a distinct connect with development and tourism that I saw.

Then we repeated that a couple of years later while I was still working in manufacturing with doing a cataract eye camp with 250 free cataract operations up in the mountains. Just super fulfilling. That lead me to believe that there's something called social work and tourism that fits together very well. When the bottom fell out of the manufacturing industry in the beginning of the 2000's I decided to move into tourism and decided to form this organization called socialtours doing exactly that.

Alex Buri:

You started that in Thamel? Was it just you or was it a few of you guys?

Raj Gyawali:

When we started there were like four, five of us. There were just all invisible. Slowly, they all backed out because they said, "You're doing this stuff anyway so you take it ahead." Yeah, right now it's just me.

Alex Buri:

What kind of trips did you start running then?

Raj Gyawali:

In the beginning it was, the idea actually started with the CSR (Corporate Social Responsibility) right in the heart of the business. We did run commercial trips but had a CSR bent on it. Getting deeper into practice, giving the right wages to the guides, training them when they go up in the mountains, making sure the trips are environmentally, culturally sensitive. The one big trust that has always been the case right in the beginning of the organization was try to spread the money in the local economy. One of the biggest decisions we made was not to vertically integrate, hence we don't own lodges, we don't own cars, we spread the money as far as possible.

Alex Buri:

Are those similar to the kinds of trips and treks that you run today? Have they changed into different areas in Nepal or different kinds of activities?

Raj Gyawali:

It has changed a lot. Once you start a company of course you also start developing products in your niche. Of late, we've been developing so many new products. We've taken on projects that INGOs have been running to try and get money into the hands of the poorest sections of the community using tourism. We have taken that on and actually used that as offbeat tours and treks. Apart from that, currently for the last three or four years we have been developing an extensive range of offbeat experiences and tours. I think that right now we have a very strong arsenal of stuff.

Alex Buri:

I'd love to hear about an example of one of them, if you could share one or describe one of the trips.

Raj Gyawali:

Yeah, sure. On trekking tours we have stuff like going into the Ruby Valley, which no one has heard of.

Alex Buri:

Where is the Ruby Valley?

Raj Gyawali:

The Ruby Valley is in between Langtang and the Gorkha Ranges. It runs into Dadhing and goes from Langtang into that area. It's about 10-day trek, pretty much home stay. Right now a bit devastated because of the earthquake, but it's slowly recovering and we are considering putting people back there in about a year's time.

Alex Buri:

Is it mostly just the trail that's damaged, or the tea houses or the villages as well?

Raj Gyawali:

There's some damage in the villages, but this is not such a big worry. I think the trail damage is something that we need to consider because it involves safety of the clients, especially if there's monsoon and there's landslides. The earth being slightly fragile in some of the main areas that was affected, and as people know it's not all of Nepal was affected. In certain sensitive areas we have to be more careful.

Alex Buri:

Yeah, it was my understanding after the earthquake that it was mainly Langtang that was affected the most. Were there other areas that were quite damaged?

Raj Gyawali:

I would say yes. I would say Langtang was definitely the most damaged. It's actually bouncing back quite fast because tourism was already functioning out there. On the side trail where people don't go very often, the Ruby Valley, the Gorkha, the Manaslu range have damages that are now being mitigated quite fast. Everybody realizes the value of tourism and how fast we need to recover. Plus, of course the locals also need their lifelines. That is one of the main reasons why it develops very fast. These are trails that are not only for tourism, these are not commercial trails, these are actually trails that locals use. We need to actually recover that really fast because people are still living up there in the mountains.

Alex Buri:

Right, of course. Another one of the treks that you're running, you were saying that there's a girl named Charlotte that's doing a trek for social change in the Everest region right now.

Raj Gyawali:

That's right. She's actually going back today. We developed this trip after I went into [Rangasala 00:06:48] and I actually discovered that Rangasala is probably one of the best places to see Everest. Much, much better than just going up Everest base camp and coming down. Then, because there are these passes that you can walk through to get to Everest we decided to develop a trip called 5 times 5,000 meters. You reach 5,000 meters highlights 5 times in the mountains. This we've now developed as a Everest challenge.

Charlotte came in from France and she really wanted to do a different style of travel. She spent about a month almost in Kathmandu vetting out projects that she might like to support. She finally zeroed in on a sanitation project in Choking, which is quite near by where I live, actually, where I'm talking from right now. Supporting a woman's project and trying to work with sanitation. She decided to try to raise $5,000 for the women by going on this 5 times 5,000. She's using this KissKissBankBank in France to raise funds. I think she's already reached almost halfway through right now. She managed that trek very well. She has finished the trek, she's probably coming back today.

Alex Buri:

I've seen the pictures on social media. It looked like she's been having a great time.

Raj Gyawali:

She's been having a blast. Actually, there's another lady from Abu Dhabi who's going there again in July already. I don't know if she's actually going to tag along a social change element on the trek, but if she doesn't we will be doing it on the side. That's all right.

Alex Buri:

Great. July, is that normally a good time to go to Everest. I know in the lower altitudes it's still kind of wet, but up in the higher 4,000 to 5,000 meter range it's pretty dry. Right?

Raj Gyawali:

Yeah, it is. Up there is a rain shadow so it can be very dry. The only challenge we'll face is to try to get her to fly into Lukla because of the monsoon. Once that is done, actually, this surprised me a lot that people don't come more to Nepal during the summer, because up in the mountains it's not too cold, pastures are beautiful with flowers, and really stunning views still. Okay, with a few clouds here and there. I think summer travel in the mountains of Nepal is really really fantastic. It's not that popular, unfortunately. I hope travel by people like these, Anita was just booked yesterday, will really start transforming stuff.

Alex Buri:

No, I hope so too. We're trying to encourage more people to go in the monsoon, just because there's less people and you have more of a sort of personal experience with the trail and the villages. There's still some great treks to do. We're doing our best to show that. We'd love to hear a bit more about these other kinds of trips. I know you guys do a bunch of treks at socialtours, but I know you're also sort of leading the way in some other unique activities that people can do. I'd love to hear about a few of those.

Raj Gyawali:

Sure. This is like our babies right now. Doing really offbeat experiences in Kathmandu, debating the monk for example in Buddhism or going and staying at a nunnery or having lunch with the nuns. Doing the 8000'ers of Kathmandu, just going to the high peaks of points in Kathmandu is creating hikes for bigger treks. Learning how to cook Nepali food. In fact, that one which, it doesn't even have a price, actually do it on a karma principle. It's quite fascinating. Even bigger tours, like stuff like following the fair trade trail in Nepal to try and see how fair trade actually functions in a manufacturing country. These are really fascinating little extensions that we have been developing.

Alex Buri:

Great. They all sound great. You do a lot of mountain biking yourself. Right?

Raj Gyawali:

I love mountain biking, yes. Nepal is like paradise. I can just get out of my house and there's mountain biking. Even on the streets of Kathmandu it's a bit like mountain biking actually.

Alex Buri:

What would you recommend if I were to do a day or two days of mountain biking?

Raj Gyawali:

If you did a day, right now the most popular that we have is a real small ride called the magical marijuana trail. This one is above in Kathmandu, goes into the southern side and also does a little bit of suburban roads, some single tracks, some downhill, a little bit of uphill and also does a few tours to see some small townships. Which is really really fascinating.

If people want to go more hardcore mountain biking then we also have things like a full day in Douro where you put a bike on a Jeep and just hit the trails, four or five runs and this can be really really fulfilling as well. If people do want and over-nighter then going to Nagarkot or going over Chitlang can be quite a great mountain biking journey. It really depends, in mountain biking it depends on the skill of the mountain biker whether you want single track, you want cross-country, downhill, or just a touring activity. I think Kathmandu has got so many trails we probably don't have to repeat trails in a month of riding. It's really a paradise.

Alex Buri:

There's even some big races held there. Is that right?

Raj Gyawali:

That's right. There's some really big events that have come up now. I personally have developed and been conducting a mountain bike ride that happens every July. This time, July 16th. It's called the Kathmandu Kora Cycling Challenge with 50 kilometer, 75 kilometer, and 100 kilometer rides. This year we're expecting about 3,000 people to participate, which is a good chance for people to come in and ride with the community of riders here. Apart from the we have got some really nice downhill and cross country races that come up in November. We conduct the Kathmandu mountain bike festival in November. This time I think November 18th. That includes music, mountain biking, lots of fun, working with the community, and all of that in Kathmandu.

Alex Buri:

Great, great. Another thing I wanted to ask you about was the Nepal Now campaign that I saw, I've been kind of following for the last half a year and seen it all over the place. What's the story behind that?

Raj Gyawali:

It's quite fascinating. The Nepal Now campaign actually, believe it or not started in Tunisia. After the earthquake we were trying to find ways to recover tourism really fast because down in the ground we didn't see too much damage, but the media had damaged our reputations quite badly. We were trying several different things. At the same time, around about end of June last year there was a shooting in Tunisia. After that I saw somebody holding up a sign saying, "I'm in Tunisia now," and posting it on Facebook. I just immediately set off to try and replicate that in Nepal. The same day I got my IT guy to just produce the poster. I brought it to my wife's coffee shop, my wife is Austrian so she looks like a tourist. Just got her to hold it, took a picture, and put it online. I got all my friends around to do it.

Then we started doing a campaign to try and get anybody who is a foreigner, people who are still traveling. They were volunteers, they were development workers, they were still travelers in the country. We got them to hold the sign and start posting that on social media. It viraled crazy on Facebook and online the Bangkok Post picked it up. It was picked up on the worldwide news. That took off nicely. Later on the entrepreneurs here got to together and we had a little strategic group, which is still running quite strong. Then the National Tourism Board also got in. We started working on trying to develop something as a one stop information portal for Nepal. That became nepalnow.org. Which is doing very well

Alex Buri:

It's great. It's really helpful. It's even spread to other countries, I think, or at least one. I saw someone holding a similar sign up on Facebook saying they're in a different country.

Raj Gyawali:

Yeah, it is. Actually once the Ecuador earthquake hit a few months ago I got a contact from one of my friends in Sweden who said, "Hey, the Ecuador guys want to do something similar like yours. Would you like to help them?" We said, "Okay, yeah that's easy." We set up a sign and sent it to Ecuador. Now they're, I think, 95,000 signs that have been spread around Ecuador. Every day we get news one coming out on Facebook saying, "I'm in Ecuador now." The campaign is really spreading in other countries. It's a real fulfilling thing to see that a country that is across the globe affected by a similar earthquake, that was a 7.8 as well, is also utilizing a campaign that we succeeded in taking forward, which is really really fulfilling.

Alex Buri:

No, it's great. I hope that people see it and realize that, obviously it is still a really great time to come to Nepal. That sort of perception of after the earthquake, how bad it was, of course it was really bad, but it's still all the treks are open and it's a great time to go.

Raj Gyawali:

Yeah. I think the important thing out there is that people feel like either, "We should go because we need to help the country," or, "We should not go because it's not the right time and we should not enjoy while people are suffering." Really, I mean if you look at it from my personal experience, there's an energy in this country. This energy is probably going to last maybe four or five years where people are recovering, they're rebuilding, they're strong, they're proud. That is something that you cannot see anywhere else in the world unless you come to a place where there's a disaster. I'm sure it's the same in Ecuador, too. I tell people that this is something that rekindles faith in humanity. That is a time bomb offer. It will not last for very long, I can promise you that. The mountains will still be there, the trails will still be there.

Alex Buri:

Right. You're saying at Swayambhu that the artisans are coming together to reconstruct the ancient murals or the artwork that was damaged. That's been sort of a real amazing process for them to get together and collaborate on.

Raj Gyawali:

Yeah. It's something that is so astounding, it's really amazing. There's even a video on YouTube on that called Rise of the Artisan, which currently we are also running as a trip where people go and see and understand the restoration process. I will not say that they will see it all the time, but the pride that people have, the artisans have in... Actually they are very sad that it went down, but they are also very proud that they can actually immortalize themselves in restoring stuff that their forefathers put up. They are bringing together artwork and styles that have been done for centuries in a very short time now. It's like seeing how things were done several centuries ago in a short period of time now, which is amazing. I think this is happening every time we have earthquakes. Nepal is really good at this.

Alex Buri:

Everyone still has the same skills and sort of techniques that they had back then to make this artwork?

Raj Gyawali:

Yes and no. I think it has modified, as it always does. For example, a stone lion that used to be made earlier, and if it is broken now will probably get steel rods in it. They'll modify the technology, but the artwork, the styling is still the same. It's amazing to see as we take the tours one day a bell is down and the next day the bell is up. Then I just tell travelers that, "You know what? Yesterday this thing was down." They can't believe it, because it looks ancient.

Alex Buri:

Right. That's great. The one other thing I wanted to ask is if you have any insider tips or places that you really love to go yourself in Kathmandu or Nepal that you'd like to share with other travelers?

Raj Gyawali:

Yeah. There are so many places like that. I'll let on to a few little tips. Just south of the valley of Kathmandu lies a place called Chitlang. It's just about currently about two hours drive away. A pretty rough drive, actually. You can also mountain bike out there and get there. There's a small valley which the Britishers [used] as an ancient trade route. They used to come in from that route when there was no roads to come into the valley. This was also the route that was used to bring cars. Believe it or not, one of them donated by Hitler to the king of Nepal, which was actually carried over the mountain into Kathmandu because Kathmandu is flat and it had some roads.

It's a very historic route, and the valley itself is stunning. Right now it has olive gardens, it has got home stays, it has a French cheese factory, a goat cheese factory believe it or not. It's a really amazing place to go for a couple of nights. If people are mountain biking they can go to the top of the hill. Actually, a cable car is coming up there in the next two or three months. It's going to be fantastic mountain biking out there. Then go down to the Kulekhani Reservoir, which is a beautiful good water and great for swimming. Biking and a swim down there is absolutely a highlight that people would never know about but it's really fun doing it.

Alex Buri:

That sounds great. What time of year would you recommend going there?

Raj Gyawali:

I don't mind going any time of the year out there. I mean, except if you really are in for the swim, you don't want to go in winter. That's all. The rest of it is still fantastic.

Alex Buri:

Great. Raj, thanks for being on the show. It's been great to have you and it's great to have you on kimkim and I look forward to many talks down the road.

Raj Gyawali:

It's an absolute pleasure, Alex. Thanks a lot.