Andres Zuleta, founder of Boutique Japan, offering unique, customized trips to Japan - Episode 8

Michelle Maurer:

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the eighth episode of the Kimkim Podcast. My name is Michelle and I am a Kimkim travel expert specializing in trips in Croatia, Hawaii and Japan. On today's podcast, we're chatting with Andres Zuleta who has started a modern day travel company called Boutique Japan. Andres, it's nice to have you on the podcast today. Thank you again for joining us here.

Andres Zuleta:

Thank you so much. Really nice to be here.

Michelle Maurer:

How did you first hear about Kimkim?

Andres Zuleta:

Actually it was a travel industry connection so one of my friends Steph introduced me to Joost and that was before it was even called Kimkim. Basically, when I heard about the idea I just thought it was brilliant just based on my own experience in the travel industry and so ever since then I've just been following your progress.

Michelle Maurer:

Nice, great. Can you give just a little bit of background about yourself?

Andres Zuleta:

Sure. I'm currently in Lisbon, Portugal. I've been traveling around the world. Basically, the company I have, Boutique Japan is run on a virtual basis. We have staff in a few different places around the world. I get to work from my laptop and I go to Japan a lot, of course but I also like to travel to other places. That's the real basics. I've been doing Boutique Japan for two and a half years. Before that I was in the travel industry for several years and then before that I was living in Japan so that's how this all started.

Michelle Maurer:

Great, what brought you to Japan?

Andres Zuleta:

I was in my mid 20's and I was living in New York and I was kind of hitting a wall, like a career wall or some kind of happiness wall. I call it my quarter life crisis. Basically, I was 24. I've been living in New York for about seven years. I honestly didn't know what I was doing. Back in college I had studied Japanese but I had actually never been to Japan yet. I think one day, I was working at this law firm in the Wall Street area and crazy hours, not a lot of fun. One day I was like, "What if I went to Japan?" I still haven't done that. It would be great if I could actually master Japanese because I'd studied a bit in college but I had never really gotten to the point of fluency. Anyway, little pipe dream turned into a plan and sure enough a few months later I was flying over to Tokyo to move there.

Michelle Maurer:

Amazing. Then you lived in Tokyo?

Andres Zuleta:

I did. I lived in Tokyo for four years. I always harbored secret dreams of moving to Osaka. I mean, I get to travel all over the country and then since then I've actually had the chance to live in other places too. I've lived in Kyoto. I've lived in Osaka but Tokyo is where I've spent the most of my time.

Michelle Maurer:

Wow, where in Tokyo were you living?

Andres Zuleta:

At first I was living about 20 minutes out of Shibuya on the Toyoko Line on the way to Yokohama. Then, I spent most of my years in Tokyo in a little area kind of near Ikebukuro very near to Tokyo Dome, not a touristy area at all but a really great area for walking and running and really great Chinese restaurant, really good Japanese food, really good Indian restaurant. Just a very regular family neighborhood but right in the center of the city.

Michelle Maurer:

Yeah, I love that about Tokyo. People don't realize, they think it's just this huge city. It actually has really great little neighborhoods and nooks and crannies and it's a great walking city too.

Andres Zuleta:

The little neighborhood was called Myogadani, it's on the Marunouchi Line which you're probably familiar with. My house was so quiet. Basically, when I have friends visit from New York or elsewhere, they are always just shocked because I actually had a little garden behind my tatami room and the garden actually had little stone steps in it that lead to the bathroom. You could actually walk through the garden to take a bath or shower. There were no street sounds literally no street sounds. It was just so peaceful and having come from New York where there's not really anything like that I was definitely taken back and it was one of the many things that surprised me about Tokyo.

Michelle Maurer:

Right. Where I grew up in Tokyo, it’s right in the heart of it and yet at night it's so quiet.

Andres Zuleta:

Actually, I'd be really curious to know where you lived but my observation I guess has been that a lot of sound and activity is hyper-concentrated in a few areas. Then, as soon as you leave those areas in any direction a few minutes, things really quiet down. At Shibuya if you're in the center of Shibuya it's absolute insanity. If you literally walk ten minutes up Center Gai and then out of immediate Shibuya and into Tomigaya or another, it's just extremely quiet and that's the case everywhere. If you only go to the center of Shinjuku, Shibuya, etc then you would actually have the impression that it's all craziness but if you literally just walk 15 minutes or so you can be on quiet back streets even Tokyo.

Michelle Maurer:

Exactly, it's so funny and you don't hear anybody honking or horns or yelling outside the windows. It's very different.

Andres Zuleta:

Yeah, you might here that here in a second.

Michelle Maurer:

Maybe here too. Yeah, I grew up in a neighborhood called Hiro-o near Roppongi.

Andres Zuleta:

For sure. It's great.

Michelle Maurer:

You had grown up learning Japanese and you grew up in New York, correct?

Andres Zuleta:

No. I grew up in Washington D.C. area. I moved to New York for college. I'd never actually studied Japanese until I was about 19 or so. I don't remember, I think second year of college. Yes, that's it because at the time I was actually studying Italian. My whole grand plan was to go study abroad in Italy.

Michelle Maurer:

Who knows where your life could have taken you then if you had gone to Italy instead of Japan.

Andres Zuleta:

It's funny but after about a year of studying Italian I truly got bored because I actually grew up speaking Spanish and they are very similar. I just thought, this is not that challenging. I was speaking with one of my friends, one of my good friends at the time who happened to be taking Japanese and I don't even recall why. He just threw out the idea like, "Why don't you try Japanese?" Being just a spontaneous young person I was like, "Sure. That's a good idea." I just switched.

Michelle Maurer:

I love it. Great. We need more people speaking Japanese and going to Japan. How did you even start Boutique Japan?

Andres Zuleta:

Basically I was working in the travel industry for a few years and I knew that I really wanted to start my own company but I had no idea what kind of company I wanted to start. Finally I just realized it's obvious I should start a company in the space that I actually understand and love. Once I had the idea I basically just started reaching out to people in the industry for advice on how to start a company. I'd never started a company. I had actually tried to start a couple of small ones but nothing had really taken off. I had a lot of friends who had their own businesses so I was able to ask them about random questions that come up when you're starting your first business about insurance, about licenses and things like that.

I mean, I would just reach out to people that I found online who had cool websites and ask for their help. People would just write back. I don't necessarily want to name her because maybe she doesn't want other people doing this. Actually two people specifically. One of them has a really, really high end travel company in New York. I really liked their website and their style. I basically just wrote and I asked her, "What would you do different if you were starting your company again? Do you have any tips for someone who's starting a new company?" Yeah, I was just amazed that she wrote back within a day with a whole bunch of tips. We corresponded for a while. It's just one example.

Michelle Maurer:

You started it and it took off right away?

Andres Zuleta:

I mean, it took off a little more quickly than I guess an outside observer might have expected. What happened was that I started it with my ex-girlfriend and we had saved up literally enough money to survive for about six months. Looking back I almost feel like there was more pressure on us than I even felt at the time because if we hadn't been successful within six months then we would have to at least one of us would have had to do something else to make money, who knows or the business might have just not succeeded.

At the time, it's almost like we had blind faith I mean, part of it was for sure I knew that the market was there and I knew that if people started finding our site that we could make it happen. I think, of course the challenge was how are you going to make people find your website. It's just a random little travel website on Google. That was the main challenge of course was getting people to actually see the website. You can't just put a website up and then what happens then. That's what we weren't sure about. That was our biggest puzzle. Not having an SEO background, not having a marketing background.

Michelle Maurer:

I was about to ask if you had any of that background. So you didn't and you just learned?

Andres Zuleta:

No, we didn't. I looked at it as a puzzle. I mean, basically I felt like I had two out of three of the puzzle pieces necessary for the successful business. I knew Japan really, really well and I also knew that I could help people do their trips just based on my own past travel industry experience. I think that's the two out of the three. I just knew that we could do an amazing job if a customer actually found us. Then, it was just like, okay, we have this one really important but it's just one puzzle piece, how do we get people to the site? I realized now that that's basically a marketing problem or a marketing question at the time since I never had a business before. I didn't even really have the words to describe it but I was just, "All right, what do we do?" We just started writing content. We just started writing really, really detailed blogs about Japan and that was it.

Michelle Maurer:

As you said you've been running the site for two years now.

Andres Zuleta:

Yeah, two and a half years.

Michelle Maurer:

Two and a half years. How has it changed since you first started it? If it's changed at all.

Andres Zuleta:

Yeah, I mean it's changed a ton. It's changed in so many ways. I mean, first of all there are seven of us now. We're scattered all over the world. We have customers all over the world. When we started we just were learning as we went. I knew the industry part of it. I knew the travel operations part of it but I'd never run a business before. We've just grown a whole lot. I mean, it's changed in every way.

Michelle Maurer:

The seven others, you said there's seven including yourself. Are they all Japan experts?

Andres Zuleta:

Right. Actually, that's the funny thing. We all have different areas of expertise whether it's marketing, whether it's actually just customer support, whether it's travel operations. I mean, of course everyone wears multiple hats to an extent but we don't need everyone to be a Japan expert by any means because we have a really deep knowledge base within us that everyone can access in terms of tools that we use internally. For example, someone that can actually provide unbelievable customer support even if they have never been to Japan because they know how to treat people right. If someone asked a question that they don't know then obviously they can ask one of the Japan specialists or just check our internal knowledge base. Yes, it's interesting. In terms of where people are based, all over California, Montana. Right now, someone's in Barcelona, Philippines, Singapore.

Michelle Maurer:

Wow, how did you find these people? They've reached out to you, you found them?

Andres Zuleta:

Our very first hire was very deliberate, knew exactly the type of role that we needed to fill and put together an extremely detailed job description online and got a ton of applications. Less than four days we got over 300 applicants from all over the world because it was a really cool job. I mean, it's a great opportunity. We market it like crazy. After that, we've been really lucky. People just come to us. I don't know, it's always just the network effect. We're talking to someone and they'll say, "I know someone who might be a really good fit for you. Maybe she only has 15 to 20 hours a week available but I'll put you guys in touch." It's actually all referrals.

Michelle Maurer:

Great. It's worked out and yeah, you guys are moving along which is awesome. You said that the main challenge of running your site or marketing to begin with. What other challenges would you say you've ran into starting your own company? Just to put you on the spot here.

Andres Zuleta:

No, for sure. I mean, there's a million challenges but I would say one of the biggest hurdles I think was getting the team built because as someone who had never run a company before first of all when I first started it I was actually thinking, "I'll never hire anyone. I'll just do this as a sole prop and just keep it really small." I got over that limited thinking really quickly. I was like, "You know, it would be really fun to actually grow this." Finding people that fit is really, really tough.

Referrals are really helpful but we got to a point where about a year and a half ago or so I was pulling my hair out because there's way too much to do but I just didn't know how to hire or delegate properly or efficiently. I think it's an issue that a lot of solo-preneurs run into is getting pass that first hurdle of just being maybe one person to actually starting to grow a team. I would say that's the on-going exciting challenge is developing the corporate structure. I don't want to call it corporate structure but the team structure and defining the rules and then finding great people.

Michelle Maurer:

Right. Even working across different borders and from different countries and different cities. I guess technology has helped with being able to basically work from anywhere which is amazing and grow your team from the rest of the world and not just from one place.

Andres Zuleta:

In terms of the unlimited talent pool, it's amazing. There are two people that I'm waiting to talk to next week. One of them is based in Japan. One of them is based in Australia. I feel so lucky that I can even consider bringing them on to the team because it's like why be limited by having to be the person ...

Michelle Maurer:

I mean, if you had done this even 15 years ago probably it wouldn't have been possible or not as easy.

Andres Zuleta:

I mean I think it's definitely less I guess you could say less, "risky" when you're dealing with referrals.

Michelle Maurer:

True.

Andres Zuleta:

For example, I haven't met all of them yet. My goal was to meet everyone and have team meet ups. When someone joins the team and they are new and I haven't met yet and they are in a different country, I can't just fly over necessarily the first day. I mean, I was recently in Singapore and we had a meet up. I was in Ireland a few weeks ago and got to have lunch with one of our team members. That thing does happen but yeah, absolutely, we depend on technology.

Michelle Maurer:

Wow. I know you travel quite a bit. Are you traveling for work, to work from different places and travel at the same time?

Andres Zuleta:

I just love to travel, a lot of the times it's for work so I'll go to conferences here and there or I may want to meet some clients and there are several who live in the same area but a lot of it is really just for pleasure and the fact that I can work from basically anywhere as long as there's really good internet.

Michelle Maurer:

That's great. How often do you go back to Japan?

Andres Zuleta:

I average about three to four months in Japan every year.

Michelle Maurer:

That's amazing. I wish I could do that.

Andres Zuleta:

Yeah, it's really great so I mean usually Im there twice a year for couple months each time average. Yeah, overall it's about three to four months each year.

Michelle Maurer:

Wow. Every time you go there do you stay with friends or do you stay in Airbnbs?

Andres Zuleta:

It depends. I like to try to live at different places if possible but a lot of times it just depends on where business is taking me. Often I'm in Tokyo and Kyoto because that's where so much takes place, conferences or just meetings, etc. For example, next time I go I actually like to spend a few weeks in Fukuoka which is one of my favorite cities. Then I usually rent a flat for a month or two. A lot of it is actually research trips so a trip might look like this for example, I'll fly into Tokyo. I'll spend two weeks in Tokyo having meetings and seeing friends. Then I'll go on a week long exploratory trip to an area where I need to explore more because people are asking about it. Then I might go to Kyoto for four weeks. Each one is a little bit different.

Michelle Maurer:

What are your most popular tours? I know you offer a bunch of different experiences. I'm taking a look at your food tour, your Japanese culinary experiences tour and I just want to go on it tomorrow.

Andres Zuleta:

Yeah, I would say the most popular aspect overall of our trips is definitely the culinary aspect. That's one of the biggest things people contact us about. Every trip we do is definitely a little bit different so they are all tailor-made but hopefully the sample trips on our website give people ideas and get people an introduction to some of the things that you could do. I think another thing that's really popular is the art island Naoshima which is amazing and people often contact us about that.

I mean, a really popular type of itinerary that people will do with us is start with three or four days in Tokyo, visit Tsukiji fish market, go out with a cool guide. Then maybe do one or two nights in Izu or Hakone and stay in a  Ryokan and have that experience. Then go down to Kyoto for say four days and have little day hikes and go to Osaka one night and have street food there. Then from there depending if there's more time. A lot of our clients really love to go to the art island Naoshima from there. Yeah, everyone is so different. That's just an example.

Michelle Maurer:

Right, that sounds great. You, just over time made these connections with the local chefs and local experts within Japan?

Andres Zuleta:

Yeah, I had some from when I lived in Japan. Some true friends and some of my friends but when starting Boutique Japan, one of the very first things we did was move to Japan for a few months to purposely just make as many more contacts as possible. That's an on-going life long project but it's all been just networking, reaching out to people, getting referred to people. Sometimes you find someone amazing on Twitter or something. You contact them then you become the best of friends and turns into a real business relationship. You just never know where ...

Michelle Maurer:

Exactly. The depachika. If people don't know what depachika is, I mean, who would know the word but it's in the basement of these department stores and sometimes at the train stations you can find them down underground and there are these food markets. Just these stalls, with snacks, ready made food - a dream for a foodie.

Andres Zuleta:

I know, a great introduction to Tokyo that we give to a lot of our clients is on their first morning in Tokyo, after their first night, wake up a little bit early not too early, go to Tsukiji market and then after that you can walk from Tsukiji to Ginza. It's about ten minutes and then go to one of the depachika there. That's a really awesome experience.

Michelle Maurer:

It's so great. Every time I bring a friend there or I tell a friend to go there, their mind is just blown.

Andres Zuleta:

Yeah, seriously.

Michelle Maurer:

I love it. I guess one last question to finish this up. I know you've traveled all over the world. What is one of your most memorable travel experiences that you've had?

Andres Zuleta:

I would say back when I was a youngster living in Japan, in my mid 20s. I didn't even have really enough spare cash to ride the bullet train so every summer I had a lot of time off and there's this thing called the Juhachi Kippu which is basically the 18 ticket. It's this really cheap rail pass for people in Japan. It's not the Japan rail pass. It's a special thing only available in summer and I think part of winter holidays and it's basically five days for ichi man enrollment, for 10,000 yen for basically a $100. About $20 a day of unlimited train rides. You can't take any express trains. It's like slow train only.

Michelle Maurer:

Wow, I've never heard of this.

Andres Zuleta:

I actually tried to use it once a couple of years, "Oh my gosh, it's too slow for me." You don't get guaranteed seats but hey I was young and crazy. I would just get on this thing and leave my house in Tokyo, hop on the train with a backpack basically and take the slow train out west to Kyoto or Osaka. Then from there one of my favorite trips was to China but basically took the Juhachi Kippu slow trains all the way to Osaka. Spent a night in Osaka at a friend of a friend's house and we got to see this crazy festival the Tenjin Matsuri which is an amazing festival in July. Then, took a boat to China. Basically took the slow boat to China. This whole trip of just taking the slowest methods of transportation I mean apart from walking and biking basically. I love travel like that. Nowadays I guess my travel style is a little faster I guess you could say ...

Michelle Maurer:

The fastest way to get there.

Andres Zuleta:

Not quite but those are some great memories.

Michelle Maurer:

Wow, that must have been amazing. I've heard of the boat to China that you can take. I've never looked into doing it.

Andres Zuleta:

It's pretty basic. It's clean but it was definitely nothing fancy. Just us and a whole lot of locals and everyone's drinking tea, playing cards. It's a great experience, 48 hours. Not for everyone but for young and adventurous people I think it's great.

Michelle Maurer:

Awesome. It was such a pleasure talking to you and learning more about your travel experiences and experience in Japan. Would love to meet up some time if you're ever in the bay area or maybe if we're in Japan together at the same time.

Andres Zuleta:

Yeah, of course.

Michelle Maurer:

Thanks again for joining us. Just a reminder to everyone to check out kimkim.com. We're recording a podcast once a week covering everything on travel, interviewing people in the travel industry. All right, we'll talk to you soon, Andres.

Andres Zuleta:

All right, thank you so much.